Trolling For Cars

Every twenty years or so, I subject myself to a painful and annoying ordeal.  It’s that time of the vicennium again, and yes, I’m navigating the perilous waters of car shopping.  So far I’ve battled new car dealers sharks, used car salesmen morays, and private sellers bottom-feeders.

I’ve done a ton of research and narrowed my choices down to a shortlist based on my analysis, and now I’m in the process of looking at actual cars.  The research was interesting and enjoyable, but the actual car-shopping is inefficient and irritating as hell.

The problem is that any sort of pressure tactic annoys me to the point where I’ll walk away and go to a different dealership just to look at an identical car.  Salespeople who know less than I do irritate me.  Liars irritate me.  And a large proportion of the salespeople I’ve encountered so far have been ignorant, high-pressure, liars, or some combination thereof.

I’ve only been shopping for two days, and already I’ve encountered these pieces of work:

  • A private seller who bought an accident-insurance write-off, fixed up the body, rolled back the odometer (there was no way that vehicle only had 39,000 kilometres on it), and had his brother the mechanic ‘certify’ it for safety. You know how you just need a shower after dealing with some guys?    Yeah, that.
  • A salesman who asked what I’m looking for and before two words had left my mouth, turned his back on me to talk to my husband instead. No, I didn’t buy a car from him.  Go figure.
  • A saleswoman who demanded my contact information before even letting me get near a car, despite the fact that I’d already told her I only wanted to sit in it to see if the driving position was comfortable enough to remain on my shortlist. She was quite snippy when I refused to give her my phone number and email… but not as ticked off as I was when I finally convinced her to let me sit in the car and the headrests could have qualified as torture devices at Guantanamo Bay.
  • A salesman who, when I told him about the other vehicles I was considering, sagely shook his head and said, “I’m not the kind of guy who’d badmouth the competition, but…” Then he proceeded to badmouth the competition, and all but patted my hand and told me to take his advice and not bother my pretty little head about such complicated things.  Listen, dipshit, I know more about cars than you do.  And it really pisses me off when you lie to me.

So I don’t have a new car yet.  And I’m afraid to even speak the words “new car” within earshot of my good old reliable beater, just in case its feelings are hurt and it decides to break down and dump me in the middle of nowhere.

But I’m still trolling the car-sales waters.  I’m not the chum they think I am.

Anybody else suffered through buying a new vehicle lately?

* * *

New discussion at the Virtual Backyard Book Club:  Sacrifice Or Selfishness?  Considering what John has given up in the name of duty, is he being selfish now? Click here to have your say!

91 thoughts on “Trolling For Cars

  1. You have my sympathies,my own experience of car salesmen (and women!) is that they are focused on making the actual sale rather than trying to be helpful,their salary is determined by their sales performance which not surprisingly is measured by their sales. In many instances the product knowledge is very poor and I’ve walked out many times after their attempts to convince me that the car they will make more commission on is better than the one I actually want. One week selling double glazing then the next week selling cars,shame that there isn’t more like the @yourfriendlycarguy above .

    Until such time as the Industry changes the patronising & supercilious manner that they have will continue to flourish because the majority of the general Public are only interested in ”How much per month” the car will cost. Personal contract plans/hire purchase/leasing/personal loan all have the sales people rubbing their hands,they make quite a lot out of pushing GAP add-ons,paint protection as well as tyre insurance schemes etc. Hence why the actual car is pretty much irrelevant to them.

    As for trying out car interiors maybe a visit to one of the major Motor Shows where most Manufacturers should be with a selection of their product range would be worth considering? Then try a Motor Broker such as ‘Car Wow’ for a competitive price then march into your local Dealer with the quote & ask them to match or better the price? You’ll always get a better deal when it’s towards the end of the month or when they have quarterly sales targets to meet which will be in March/June/September/December. Also worth considering (once you’ve narrowed down the car you want) would be to buy a run out model,pre reg or ex demo car and avoid going in there at weekends 😉


    • That’s great advice – thanks! Unfortunately I missed the World of Wheels exhibition in Calgary this year, but you’re right; that would’ve been a great place to “test-sit” cars! 🙂


  2. Pingback: Riding The Blue Unicorn | Diane Henders

  3. Diane I am very sorry to hear about your results in buying a new car. As a car salesman I can say I believe that you have to give people great service. I like to think I’m not a salesman but a serviceman. Some people can really ruin a special experience. Buying a car should be fun and easy. Not pushy and persistent. So if you ever have any questions or need help with anything i would love to help Diane!

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Pingback: What Colour Is The Sky In Your World? | Diane Henders

  5. Fortunately it has been awhile for my wife and I….but that said, it use to just crack us up when we would show up as my wife would know the details of whatever vehicle we were interested in right down to the engine size, performance, etc….my expertise was on the buying, financing side…great team, but most sales people are sexist and we would leave those dealers without batting an eye!!

    Liked by 1 person

  6. I recently had to replace my car. I’ll never buy new again but what to do? I went to my (trusted) mechanic who buys cars from the auction, fixes them up and then resells them. He’s been very good to me, so I went to him with my top ten list gleaned from internet research (which he promptly debunked). Anyway, he had a Honda CRV there which I test drove and then bought. I did have a few things crop up right away but he fixed them, no questions asked and at no extra cost. He’s a rare good car guy.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. I’m with you, Diane – I hate pushy salespeople. I also hate the ones who leave me to it and watch me browsing when I make it obvious that I’m ready for their help. Why can’t they just be there for me when I need them? It isn’t too much to ask, is it? Ugh. And salesmen liars – they must really sleep soundly, wouldn’t you say?

    Liked by 1 person

    • You know what we need? Some kind of necklace or armband than can be flipped to show green or red depending on whether we want to be left in peace or to get help from a salesperson. That way they wouldn’t have to guess and we wouldn’t have to be irritated.

      I don’t even want to imagine being a salesperson – I’ve done lots of sales-related stuff as part of being a business owner, and I’ve loathed every second of it. But maybe my problem was that I was being too honest and actually trying to help people. If I’d had a sales-manager-demon to relieve me of my conscience I’d probably have been fine… ish.

      Liked by 1 person

  8. HATE THAT!!!! Funny enough, it’s my husband who can’t stand to deal with salespeople. (I like to mess with them and then leave!!! LOL) When we went to purchase furniture I had already scouted out several options, and it was time to bring the husband to the store. When we walked in, I talked to the first salesmen I saw and told him, “We are going to purchase furniture today. My husband dislikes salesmen very much, so if you keep everyone away from us, I will give you the sale.” Worked like a charm. Anytime a salesmen came walking towards us he cut them off and told them he had us handled. Took 15 minutes and I called him over. He wrote us up and got an easy sale!!! LOL
    I’ve always been upfront with salespeople when we are ready to purchase. It works wonderfully and cuts all the crap out!

    Liked by 3 people

    • That’s a brilliant approach! I always explain where I am in the sales process and what I’m looking for, but then I go into it with my teeth clenched expecting the worst.

      Problem is, test-driving vehicles requires the participation of the salesperson because each vehicle is slightly different and there’s never a firm price tag or a complete feature list; and I can’t even promise I’ll give them the sale if they cooperate. I’ve been working with a wonderful guy from the Chev dealership but as much as I want to buy from him, I can’t find a Chev vehicle that fits all my requirements and passes the test-drive. Sigh.

      Liked by 1 person

  9. I feel the same as you when it’s time to buy a new one. If they really want to tune me out, try & convince me I “have to buy one from them” or direct their questions to my male friend that goes with me. He’ll tell them real quick that he’s not the one buying. I had test driven one vehicle and really liked it, but not the price. Went to several other dealers with the same requirements only to have them pull that very same vehicle up on their computers. Each dealer came up with a different price. Ended up buying that particular vehicle from a dealer 30 miles from the first one because their price was approx. $4,000 less and their service dept. has an outstanding reputation. They went after the vehicle and had it ready for me the next day. I had done my online research regarding what I wanted. The manager at the dealership where I purchased my vehicle stated that he was glad most of his customers didn’t come in as well prepared as I had. They wouldn’t be able to stay in business.

    Liked by 2 people

    • That’s awesome! I did all my research up front so I knew which vehicles fit my technical specifications, but I’m having a hard time finding one that fits me in the test-drive. Apparently I’m a freak of nature – I can’t seem to put the steering wheel in a comfortable driving position without it blocking my view of the speedometer. Now that I’ve narrowed the list down to a couple of vehicles I can drive comfortably, I’ll be in a better negotiating position. On to Phase 2…

      Liked by 1 person

      • Ever since I began buying my cars new instead of used, I do the same thing each time. I see it on the street and get a good feeling about it. If that keeps happening, I look up some specifics on the car. Then, when it’s time to buy, I go do a test drive. If it feels right, I buy the car. I guess my body/brain get together and click on a car so I don’t have to worry too much or do much research. I haven’t been wrong in 30 years.

        Right now, though, I can’t seem to find the car I want. Maybe I need to drive around more.

        Liked by 1 person

  10. I detest buying cars, loathe, would rather roll in hot tar kind of dislike. Yes to most of the above experiences. About a decade ago Dave surprised me bu buying me a car so I didn’t have to endure the torture. I had already test driven one and liked it. Anyway best present ever!

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Many years back, before I met hubby, I went to look at cars and was in the “only looking phase”, not in the “I’m ready to purchase” phase. I was up front with the salesman about that right away, did the test drive we chatted, next thing I know he’s has paperwork in front of me to sign,. I asked why, and he tries to bullshit me with some lame story about “this just says if we can come to an agreement about the price of the car, you’ll buy it”. Say what? I refused, then he gets his manager who tries the old “is there a problem here?” routine. My reply was along the lines of “No, other than perhaps your salesman had trouble understanding me when I said that I wasn’t intending to purchase anything today, so let me make myself perfectly clear. We won’t be able to come to ANY agreement on the price under any circumstances, because I won’t tolerate this kind of strong arm tactic crap just because I’m female” and got up and walked out.

    Now life is interesting because my husband used to sell cars, so we overanalyze everything before we even walk on lots to buy…so the last time I had my shortlist ready, and knew within 3 vehicles what I wanted. Plus, we go to the auto show every year, so I already knew what would be comfortable to sit in. So I made a spreadsheet, listed all my features, plus went to Car and Driver for the really important measurement – number of beer cases in the back of the SUV cargo area – and off I went. Got a Lincoln MKX that was a lease return, plus Lincoln added an extended warranty. You’ll have to pry the key fob out of my cold dead hands.

    Liked by 1 person

    • A Chrysler dealer in Oklahoma City got so bad years ago that after four different customers called the FBI and reported themselves kidnapped, the feds closed the dealership for a week. I don’t think anybody actually went to jail, but nobody got paid for seven days.

      Behavior modification by financial influence? One can hope.

      When you arrived, you’d have to give your keys to some guy who would drive your ride into the shop for a ‘free safety inspection.’ It then became quicker to buy a new car from them than to wait for them to return yours.

      I’ve *never, ever* cared much for Chrysler products, but THAT’S a new low. After that, if anyone asks for my keys FOR ANY REASON, I just drive away immediately.


    • I just got back from another adventure in stupid-land. I was test-driving a brand-new Ford Escape 2.0L, the exact same model and year my step-mom owns. And I’m telling the salesman, “There’s something wrong with this car – it needs to be serviced.” Acceleration was non-existent, it indicated the rear passenger door was open even when it was closed, and it idled like a tank. I’ve driven this exact model before and I know how it should perform.

      And the salesman is saying, “You’re driving it wrong. You can’t just put your foot to the floor and expect it go, you have to push the pedal down gently, there’s turbo lag, blah, blah, blah…”

      After trying several times to get him to understand, I gave up. Then when I asked about a different model and he babbled ten minutes of bullshit at me without ever answering my question, I just left. Never going back.

      But as fate would have it, I’ve also been dealing with a very nice salesman over the Chev dealership, and he happened to have the same model of Ford Escape in his used-car lot. Went over there and got the performance (and the service) I expected. I haven’t decided whether to buy an Escape, but if I do, I’ll buy from that Chev dealer!

      Liked by 1 person

      • I really, REALLY hate it when sales guys (in any industry) talk to me like I don’t have a brain. I walk away, and have even said to them things like “I’m not stupid, but if you can’t speak respectfully to me and take me seriously, I’ll find someone else to take my money. You just lost a sale.” Or better yet “Have you ever seen Pretty Woman?” and most will say yes. Then I go on, “remember the scene where she dress shops and goes back with the bags and says ‘remember when you wouldn’t sell anything to me’ and is holding the multiple designer bags in her hands ‘big mistake. HUGE!’. Well you treating me like this was your big mistake. HUGE.” and I’ve walked away. So satisfying.

        Liked by 1 person

      • I think you’ll love it! The push button start is wonderful, and having so many controls on the steering wheel is a great safety feature. I bought after market winter floor mats from WeatherTech to protect the interior, best investment for it! We drove out to Rapid City SD a year ago and 8 hr days in the car, no serious physical discomfort from being the car for so long.

        Liked by 1 person

  12. OK now don’t laugh. Think truck as in pickup. That’s all I’ve driven over the past 25 years and the average transaction was about an hour and a half. The sales “things” in the truck department seem to have a different mindset. Plus, some pickups nowadays are finished out like luxury liners.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Fabulous! I still miss the old Ford F-150 half-ton I used to have. Now we have a big Chevy Silverado 3/4 ton 4×4 – like you say, a luxury liner, with cushy seats and air conditioning and cruise control and all the other goodies. But I’d still rather have my old Ford. 🙂

      I didn’t realize the truck-buying experience was so different, though. I’ve never bought a truck new from the dealer, but maybe I should try it sometime!

      Liked by 1 person

      • Whoa, you’re driving a big block Chevy, 3/4 ton, 4X4? Geez It doesn’t get much more pick-uppy than that. But I agree, I like Fords too. I’ve been driving an F150 V-8 I bought new in 2002. My wife says I need a new one but I can’t see it. The old thing (it even has a name:Mule) cranks and runs every time I need it to and then it gets me home. Plus if I ever get the urge to leave the hardtop and off road through the brush it can and does. But you have that same capability in spades with your Chevy 4X4. I’ve tried luxury cars in the past (Cadillac and T-Birds) but my mechanic drove them more than I did doing test drives after various repairs.

        Liked by 1 person

  13. Diane,

    We’re practically twins here. I have been waffling about trading in my car for a couple of months. Trying to time it with my brother trading his car in as I have the better credit rating and will assist him.

    I’ve noticed that the older I get and the higher my credit rating gets, the less hassle I deal with while buying a car. The longest I ever spent was helping my mom buy one. 7 hours at the dealer!!! I think 2-3 hours is the lowest, but that’s because they have their process to go through. I’ve learned to smile gently and nod a lot until they go run the credit history. Then they come out and gaze lovingly and longingly at me, ready to ask how high when I say jump. If this is how celebrities feel, I think I wanna be famous. LOL j/k

    My current car was purchased with gas mileage in mind so it’s a Prius C. Nice little car that gets 50 mpg, even at almost 4 years old. Now that I’m in a job where I work from home or travel to a client, I don’t need that kind of gas mileage. I don’t know what to get this time, however. I’m short and used to more compact cars, but even the Prius C was a little too small for me.

    Anyone out there with suggestions?

    Liked by 3 people

    • For driving lots of miles and/or heavy winters, Volvo would’ve been my recommendation. They survived their dalliance with Ford pretty well, I thought. Tuned up their organizational chart at least without doing an damage to their product line. But now they’re owned by a Chinese concern. I’d give them a few years, personally, before I owned another one. Ours is an ’11 XC-70. Smooth, quiet, bulletproof. I take good care of our rides, so we’re expecting a solid 300,000 miles from it. But the new ones? Dunno. This one probably will be our last. And two months after we bought it, the local dealership folded. Had to drive two hours for the free oil changes and such before the warranty expired. Didn’t leave a good taste, that.

      Only other ride I would consider for your winters would be a Subaru. Like Volvos, they have a bit more ground clearance built in. All the traction in the world won’t help if you’re plowing your radiator space full of snow due to lack of ground clearance. If your local dealer’s service department has a good reputation, deal with the morons up front and move on. As long as those things last, you’ll only have to deal with the nitwits once.

      Still, why deal with nitwits at all if you don’t have to.

      Here’s how I do it now, based on fifty years of dealing with car sales people. When I walk in, I tell the greeter, “I want to speak to an honest salesperson. Do you have one?”

      Of course, they say yes. But if I walk out soon after because they tried to screw me, I go back to the greeter and say, loudly, “You are a liar!” as I leave.

      All the time, I’m not smiling. I don’t ever smile anywhere around a car dealership. Nor do I banter. I stare and blink as little as possible. I’m not kidding.

      After the salesperson shows up, I hold up my hand, interrupt the bullshit greeting and say, “Here’s the deal. If you have to talk to your ‘sales manager’ more than twice, I’m walking out the door and not coming back. I’ll put up with that crap once, but the second time, you better have THE DEAL ready to go, because that’s your only shot. If that’s not acceptable, just tell me here and now, up front, so we don’t waste each others’ time. Are we clear?”

      If that works, fine. If not, walk away, and be sure to call the greeter a liar in a loud voice on the way out.

      That’s why I drive Nissans now. I found a sales guy I can get along with, and their products work. Almost 120k miles on my ’11 Frontier Crew Cab, it still looks new inside and out, and the dealer’s never touched it. Not even wheel alignment.

      But that’s just me. My sister is BLOODY RUTHLESS at a car dealership. Not rude, not ill-mannered at all, but she takes absolutely no prisoners. Remember, you don’t owe them ANYTHING when you walk in their door. I consider myself in enemy territory as soon as I park. Fight hard. They’ll laugh at you later if you don’t.


      • Yeah, that’s why I do this as little as possible. It’s a vast annoyance to even go into a place where I have to assume I’m dealing with liars. I don’t bother calling them on it because it’s not worth my irritation, but if more people took your approach maybe things would change.

        But the way I figure it, if I play my cards right I’m only going to live long enough to have to do this once more, tops. It’s sad when the thought of impending death is the only thing that gives you hope… 😉

        Liked by 1 person

    • You’re right, Karen, it’s a much more pleasant experience when they start to suck up a bit! I find they snap to attention quite nicely when I tell them I’m paying cash.

      Regarding the car question, my go-to reference is Phil Edmondston’s Lemon-Aid Guide. He rates all the vehicles according to a whole slew of different factors including crash safety, reliability, cost of repairs, and consumer reports. Any of his Recommended or Above Average ratings are safe buys, and some of the Average ones are good, too. He also lists vehicles that are similar to the one he’s discussing, and they’re in order by size so you could look up the Prius and then go to the next size up.

      Good luck with your car shopping!

      Liked by 1 person

  14. Recently bought a new car (Toyota Rav 4) and actually had the best buying experience ever. Husband and I were both dreading the idea of getting through the whole shopping and buying thing so as we were leaving the dealer with my new car we both sort of were in a state of surrealism. It took just a little over an hour, choose the first car I wanted, got the first price we asked and our trade in came in almost $2000 more then expected. For a few weeks after I kept thinking at any moment the dealership was going to call and say the whole thing was messed up and we needed to bring my new baby back.
    I do feel for you though…car salesmen in general tend to be from a different planet: a slimy, icky one.

    Liked by 2 people

  15. Bought a 2006 Crown Victoria Police Interceptor on the BC government auction site in 2010. Still has the Police Interceptor plate on the back. It was a detective’s vehicle – not a patrol car. Best car EVER! Seats are so comfortable and if I ever have to drive through the scivy parts of Vancouver, it has kevlar in the doors and stab bars in the back of the front seats. Just what Aidan needs! I often have my daughter’s big black do with me and he sits in the front seat and glares at anyone who pulls up beside me. Also the best man magnet – if I weren’t 70, that might mean something to me.

    Liked by 1 person

    • That’s fabulous – what a great car! And the big black dog is a perfect accessory. The Crown Vics are still ‘fixable’, too – I miss the old days when I could fix anything on a vehicle. But I’ve gotten quite fond of the modern comforts and conveniences, and it’s cheaper to buy a new vehicle than to try to bring my ’53 Chevy up to that level. 😉

      Liked by 2 people

      • Most of the motor heads I grew up with gave up when everything got to be electronic and computerized. Not me. I can still fix anything on a car. Just get a Haynes Manual or a Chilton’s Manual for whatever you’re working on. Or if your ‘patient’ is too new for those, download the factory manual for it. Several sites are available that let you do that for free. Failing that, for some nominal fee you can download straight from the factory’s service website.

        I didn’t think I would, but now I actually prefer the online or downloaded manuals. I can print whatever info I need for a particular job, get it as greasy as I want to, and just toss the mess when I’m done. I don’t have to keep cleaning my hands to turn a page to keep from wrecking an official printed manual.

        True, you’ll need a code scanner or an OBDII code reader as a minimum, but AutoZone, et al, will do that for free to get you started.

        Fear not. If you can fix old cars, you can fix new ones. The info is out there…somewhere…lurking…just waiting for you…


        • Free factory service manuals?!? Where? Any time I’ve tried to find one, they’ve cost hundreds of dollars. I’m obviously not looking in the right place! I always buy Haynes/Chilton’s, but they’re often a little too generic when we get into the more complicated jobs.

          We have a code scanner, so we’re okay there, but so many of the new vehicles require specialized tools that it just gets silly. And if the computer (or any of its brethren or children) dies, you’re hooped. And tracing electrical problems is brutal on the power-everything models. And doing anything around an airbag is always fraught with peril…

          *sigh* Remember carburetors and distributor caps?

          Liked by 1 person

    • LOL! I’ve been in that position, and I’m thankful that this time I’ve been keeping my old car because it’s still comfortable and reliable. But now that it’s 18 years old and at over a quarter-million kilometres, I can see the handwriting on the wall. It’s never let me down or needed anything other than routine maintenance, but I’d rather switch to a new one before it does. Still, though, I feel disloyal…

      Liked by 1 person

        • You betcha! I took it out on the highway for another 250 km round trip today, just like I do every weekend… and it still performed better than all but two of the brand new vehicles I just test-drove. What’s wrong with this picture?


          • I had a Saturn for several years. It was wonderful. I ended up “selling” it to my niece and getting a new car after 5 years. It was a beautiful deep purple that didn’t look purple unless the sun shone on it. They called it blackberry, I think. My niece was and probably always will be pretty bad with vehicles and blew out the engine on the freeway after only 2 years. It only had 50K miles on it when I “sold” it to her. I put selling and sold into quotation marks because I was charging her $200 a month and after only 2 months I told her, okay, car is paid for. So I sold her a car worth 5K for $400 and she killed it in two years. I still love her, but I try really hard not to think about what she did to this car.

            Liked by 1 person

  16. I have to fess I know nothing about cars, so I can’t really comment on this.

    But my new job is car insurance. (Hides in a corner)

    I have had experience of people not talking to me when buying a PC for example, if I’m with my dad (who’s paying) I worked in IT for 13 yrs. I actually walked out when I was ignored, my dad told the guy I’m only paying it’s for her and she knows what she wants, and I guess she didn’t like being ignored so I best follow her.

    Hope everyone is fine
    Hugs to all karen xx

    Liked by 2 people

    • LOL! It’s okay, insurance is a whole different ball game – you don’t need to hide. 🙂 I’ve considered making a fuss when a salesman ignores me and turns to the “competent male” instead, but in the end I just walk away. If he’s that stupid and chauvinistic, nothing I say is going to change his attitude. But I’m sure as hell not going to put money in his pocket by buying from him.

      Liked by 2 people

      • glad I didn’t have to hide for long, too many dust bunnies in the corner, so I left them too it.

        as a fully paid up pedestrian/or occasional passenger, I can appreciate a nice car. and a comfy one is even better. I’m still learning the new job but have access to knowledge that surprised me and my colleagues this afternoon as we were doing practice this afternoon.

        I also have to confess to the boredom a tad, my mind wandered listening to them waffle about things, and I was reading your blog and probably doing my comment in book club as I was answering them
        (good to be able to multi task)

        Liked by 1 person

  17. Hi Diane, We solved the car problem about 5 cars ago. We found a car we like from a dealer we trust and just buy the same car over and over. It is a Subaru Outback. We live in Northern Michigan near Lake Michigan so this is real snow country (192 inches a year average) with about six months of winter (in a good year). The Subaru Outback is all-wheel drive and my wife loves it (especially the heated seats).  Of course, I have never driven even one of these. I am still stuck in my rut driving Ford 4×4 pick-ups!! Keep smilin’,Duane.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Finding a dealer you can trust is the best thing ever! I’ve found a saleman I like, too, but unfortunately I’ve test-driven all the cars he has and none of them have measured up. I really wish I could buy from him!

      I’ve been looking at Subarus, but several of the consumer reviews have said they tend to drink oil. Have you noticed higher-than-normal oil consumption with the Outback?

      Liked by 1 person

What do you think?

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.